Decumulating Wealth and the Wow Moment Strategy

Darryl:
Well, I always thought I would die of old age. Don't get me wrong. I am not Superman, despite what everybody might think. Or am I? But actually, I'm starting to get a little worried. And I hate to get serious on here and, you know, be Debbie Downer, but I'm pretty sure my baby toe will be the cause of my death. Seriously, how is it possible to stub something so fricking small so often? Like, the other night, I'm walking back from the bathroom, it's pitch black. I'm trying to be quiet because, you know, I'm a considerate husband, and BAM. Toe meets bad frame instantly.

Darryl:
But, but. But I didn't just stub it. Oh, no. I hit it so hard, I moved the entire bed, like, physically shifted it. Erin woke up half asleep and goes, what the hell was that? Meanwhile, I'm standing there hopping around like a wounded solider who lost a whole leg.

René:
I know people have broke their toes doing that.

Darryl:
I have.

René:
It's dangerous. It's a hazard.

Darryl:
It is the worst. And I'm not even a tall guy. Like, I don't wear a size 15 shoe. I have, like, pretty small feet.

René:
Where it happens to me the most is our dishwasher. Because we have that little wooden lip around the door of the dishwasher. So when the dishwasher door is open, that little lip matches the floor. So my, like, my field of vision thinks that the. The door starts where the stainless steel is.

Darryl:
Yeah, yeah.

René:
But in reality, there's an extra 2 inches there, and I'm steady kicking that thing. It hurts.

Darryl:
I know.

René:
Sounds like you do it more often than me, though.

Darryl:
It's ridiculous how often I do it. And, like, that's the funny thing. I couldn't imagine being like Shaq and, like, you know, this giant foot because he must kick shit all the time. You know what they say about a guy with small feet, though, right?

René:
What?

Darryl:
Small feet are just more efficient. Less time walking around. More time making the rest of me more memorable.

René:
I thought you were going to talk about your genitalia.

Darryl:
Not today. This is Taming the Hustle,

René:
... or Something of the Sorts.

Darryl:
So this was last night. And my toe is throbbing still today.

René:
Sorry about your luck.

Darryl:
I wonder, can you walk around without a baby toe? Like, if I got that one just taken off.

René:
Yeah.

Darryl:
You know?

René:
Stupid... I don't know. I don't suggest that.

Darryl:
Well, I feel like then I wouldn't hit it right. Like it's not going to shift over. I'll think that it's still there.

René:
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Try some electrical tape and tape it to the other toe or something at least before cutting it off.

Darryl:
Hey, people get plastic surgery for weird shit today. I can get rid of a baby toe.

René:
It's like getting a sex change when you're not sure you want a sex change is pretty permanent when you cut a toe off.

Darryl:
All right, well, let's get into it today because I want to talk about something that. It kind of bothers me. I know you get mad at me when I complain about say the bank or the so called advisors outside the bank. But one thing that I've kind of learned over the years just talking to people is that the bank can be there for you to help you accumulate wealth. And that's great. But oftentimes I find that I'm hearing from older people that they go to the bank when they retire and they're like, okay, now I have some money, how do I retire? And I feel like they're just kind of left in the dark.

René:
Yeah, that is something that we see all the time actually. It's quite interesting. And it's not just the banks. I mean, there's so many independent advisors or other firms.

Darryl:
Yeah, exactly.

René:
Sometimes you get lucky, you know something about investing and you do a decent job for the client and you know, you look at doing RSP contributions to reduce their taxes in that particular year. But, I would say that the majority of advisors that call them themselves planners, you know, they can get away with a career of helping clients with wealth accumulation.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
But really have no level of expertise when it comes to wealth decumulation. So let me explain that because this is very, very impactful for one's financial future.

Darryl:
No kidding.

René:
You know, we're, we're seeing the tail end of the baby boomer generation retiring. Now they say the boomer generation is from 1946-64. So that would make that generation, you know, 60 to 78 years old.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So we're seeing much of that generation retire now and they've accumulated an enormous amount of wealth.

Darryl:
No kidding, right?

René:
Don't quote me on this, but I think that they're said to be the wealthiest generation in recorded history.

Darryl:
Well, this is why I was always attracted to older women.

René:
Yeah, yeah. I love milfs because they're the wealthiest generation. So I always find this very interesting when we have these chats, whether it's internally or with clients. Directly is that it's not nearly as complicated to accumulate wealth than it is to decumulate wealth.

Darryl:
Interesting.

René:
Especially if it's a retired business owner that still has corporate assets or maybe real estate. Let me paint a picture of a typical client that has some complexity in their lives. Okay, so a retired business owner still has their corporation, so they've sold their business, they transfer whatever wealthy accumulated throughout their career in their holding company. So they have investments in their holdco, possibly some real estate personally, they'll own their principal residence, they'll have RSPs, they'll have their TFSA is likely some non registered investments. Yeah, and maybe some other real estate that they own personally as well too. Right. So now all of a sudden you've got this great big basket of goods and now we have to figure out how best to spend that money to be able to fund your retirement.

Darryl:
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's not as easy as just going in to see you and say, okay, I'm retiring today, so just give me some money from my retirement funds.

René:
Fuck no. An advisor should be a lot more mindful of this years in advance to make sure that, you know, you're as efficient as possible. You know, we've often talked about asset location is where do you hold your investments? Do you hold them personally? Do you hold them in corp. Which basket of goods belong in your TFSA versus your RSP?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So once you've reached retirement and we start to do an analysis on. Okay, well you need $12,000 a month to support your lifestyle. Well, do we pull it all from RSPs at the beginning to deregister some of those assets and try to liquidate the tax problem with your estate? Do we take it solely from your dividends from your corp and pay less tax in earlier years? Do you do a combination of pulling from your RSPs and your TFSAs and non registered investments and then leaving your TFSA till the end? Right. I'll break down a couple of these. But I mean, seriously, Darryl, we could be talking about this for days and we'd just be, you know, kind of chiseling off the tip of the iceberg. There's so much complexity associated with this. That's why you really have to consider finding the right advisor to help you retire.

Darryl:
Yeah, no kidding, right?

René:
So what we're seeing from my experience with the boomer generation is that we're growing our business exponentially because we really excel in this area. And the boomers are looking for people that are going to help them, you know, effectively decumulate wealth.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So let's look at some examples and interrupt me. I want you, who's not in the business, to really kind of pick my brain on this one because I find the audience really needs to hear this.

Darryl:
You want me to interrupt you? I feel like this has never been said before. I. Oh my God. I'm so excited you're allowing me to interrupt. Holy crap. I'm in. I am in.

René:
All right, so. Ah, it's so complicated, Darryl. I'm actually struggling on where to start today. Honestly, this is a great topic.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So let's say the, the client has in mind that they're going to pull a dividend exclusively from their corporation because they want to wind up their Corp after year 10 so they don't have the accounting costs of having corporate assets. Yeah, that's a really good idea, but does that make the most sense? Okay, should we be pulling some of the RSPs so that, you know, we're pulling it out at maybe a 30 to 40% tax rate as opposed to leaving it to the estate at 54%?

Darryl:
Because it's the taxes that fuck you.

René:
Because the taxes. Fuck you. Either way, you're paying taxes. So our job is to figure out how to accumulate wealth as tax efficiently as possible.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Right. So taking all of the dividends out of the corp, you may pay less tax as dividend income as opposed to taking some RIFFS, but are you leaving your RIFF account growing to be a bigger tax problem? On the flip side, if you do pull from your corporation and declare a dividend and use that to pay for your $12,000 cost of living, you're now leaving your RSP growth compoundedly with the gross amount. So if you are in a 40% tax bracket and you have a million dollar RSP portfolio as part of your basket of goods for retirement, if your return is 6%, yeah, you're going to grow that 6% on the million dollars. But if you start to deregister that just for the sake of deregistering it, you're only getting the compounded growth of 6% on the 600,000 that's left. You're not taking it all out in one year. I mean, don't, don't put me on the spot for that, but it's just, you know, I'm just using that as an example, is that if you're pulling out, say you need 100,000 of RSP in a year with other sources of revenue like your CPP, your Old Age Security and whatnot, that's taxed at 30 or 40%, you're losing the compounded growth of the gross amount of that investment. We have to really be mindful of where we're going to be pulling that money to accumulate your wealth. The other thing is the non registered investment.

René:
So again, I can't emphasize the importance of asset location that we've talked about in other episodes is where to hold your investments. So typically we're going to hold more equity in the non registered investments and more of the fixed income in the RSPs. Because the RSP, when you pull it out, it's taxed the same way as it would be if it were income.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So there's no opportunity to create tax efficiency. Whereas in the non registered, the more capital gains tax that we have, the more efficient your investment will be because you're only including 50 to 66 and 2/3 of that capital gain. However, if you've spent your entire lifetime accumulating wealth and you've got a $3 million non registered portfolio and your cost on it is 1 million, for example, well, you can potentially have a gain of $2 million there.

Darryl:
Nice.

René:
So what often happens is the client is a little bit eerie to be pulling it out and paying the capital gains tax. And the other thing is often when we're putting the equity in the non registered investment, that portfolio will do better because long term equities perform better. So then do we want to take away from the performing investments to pull it out tax efficiently, or do we pull it out of the RSPs that are taxed less favourably but you're going to be deregistering it, or do you choose to pay that 54% tax when you die?

Darryl:
And that's not a decision I think the average person should be just making on a whim.

René:
Oh man. Like my head is spinning right now just trying to explain it. Like my team and I do this day in and day out, but trying to verbalize that I'm, I'm finding myself stumbling over my own words.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So then in the big picture of things, we're looking at things like, well, what particular investment do we start to redeem?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
In the particular point in time that you're in.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Right. Have we started drawing the CPP yet? Did we postpone it to 65 or 70 like we talked in, in, in an episode? And if we're doing that, we're going to need more money up front. Are we grabbing that from your rsp? Are we grabbing that from your non registered Are we grabbing that as a dividend from your corp? It's pretty much a no brainer that you leave your tax free savings account till the end because it's growing tax free. You get to name a beneficiary. So if your spouse passes away, you just, it goes straight to your kids or whoever you've named as beneficiary. And there's no probate, there's no tax complications. You would be shocked at the amount of people that are considering taking TFSA money out to fund their retirement while they have non registered investments. So why would you not fucking grow your TFSA portfolio that's never going to be taxed that you can name a beneficiary and accumulate your non registered investment.

René:
But people don't see it that way because they don't have that expertise and a lot of people in my industry don't have it. And it's mind boggling that they're attempting to give this type of advice when they don't really know what they're doing.

Darryl:
I feel a little bit like Tom Cruise in the movie Rain Man.

René:
I'm feeling it too. I'm sorry dude!

Darryl:
I know you're saying words and there's some real complicated going on in your brain and I'm just standing here being good looking.

René:
I can't even verbalize it. There's a little bit of steam coming out of my headset, coming up my ears. No, but I'm very intense about this because I'm passionate about it. Because we're very fucking good at it. And you know what, it's helped with the success of what we're trying to do with our clients. But, but at the same time it's very frustrating that industry does not have this expertise but they still call themselves experts.

Darryl:
Well, and I think that's the way our society has gone. It's like we are in such a mindset, a lot of us of that. It's kind of that reactive type thing where it's, it's like we think we know it all and then we get to a point and we're like oh shit, we screwed up. Now we have to be reactive.

René:
Yeah.

Darryl:
And our society has not trained ourselves to be proactive. And so going to the bank or those independent advisors again, I'm doing some air quotes on the word advisor is that that's just being reactive because you're just allowing someone to take it without a plan in place. It's when you go see them, they're like, yeah, put your money in it's going to grow. Don't worry. Don't worry. This is what we do. We are the bank. Why do you think we are on the news all the time? Well, because you're overpaying fees and record breaking profits.

Darryl:
That's why you're on the news all the time. But I see that and I think, okay, you know, the average Joe is going there and just taking it all in and saying, okay, I trust you. Even though you're not giving me an actual plan or numbers and figures or an outlook of the future or even when the future comes, how we decumulate this wealth and actually spend it and take get out in which order to do it. How is it not part of the process? But again, that's the whole reactive thing. Get to 65 and then say, oh, shit, you're not showing me how to pull it out. It's a guessing game. You told me I'll be fine. So I guess if I take that tfsa, I will be fine.

Darryl:
That's what you just told me. It's. It's insane to me. I don't know why we can't be proactive as a society.

René:
Yeah, and you know what? I don't want this to turn into a bitch fest either because you and I could rant about this for a long time, right? Because we have these conversations outside of the studio pretty regularly. But the fact remains that, you know, the moral of the story is you should really consider making sure you have the right advisor that is going to help you decumulate wealth. Because there's a very, very good chance that the person you're working with right now does not have the ability to guide you through that and does not have that expertise. You are 100% right, Darrell.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Just in summary, most people will trust whoever they're working with to know what they're doing, right? But I would question it. Just make sure that you're working with the right person. Because you spent your whole life accumulating wealth and now you're going to start reaping the fruit of your labor and you want to make sure that that penny is stretched as long as possible. So are we pulling money from your rental income only? Are we pulling a dividend with that? Are we starting to riff your RSPs? Do we pull some money out of your non registered investments? Are we doing that on a monthly basis? Or do we leave the non registered investments for all of your extra, you know, annual costs? We have clients are like, okay, well let's budget for 50,000 from a non Registered investment so that I can travel and that's going to be set aside for traveling or do we do a combination of everything? Right. So the tax planning piece of that becomes integral into the planning of your entire retirement and actually helping with your estate.

Darryl:
And I feel like we often talk about the lifestyle you want to live when you retire. And I think like, okay, so I retire, let's say a million or 2 million or like in my case like 400 million. God, I wish.

René:
Let's do it.

Darryl:
But let's for argument's sake say that I want to retire and I want my lifestyle to be at ten grand a month. And we look at that picture and we say, yes, that is possible. I go to you and say that yes, that is possible. And this is how we do it by going with the RSP first or going with this first or going that first and taking the money from those avenues and being tax efficient. Whereas I feel like when you go to someone like these so called advisors who aren't trained for this, they're like, oh, it'll work out. And at the end of the day, I'm living off 5,000amonth because I'm doing it not efficiently and not in the right way. Is that correct?

René:
Oh, 100%. And you know what, I hear that so often still. And you think in this day and age that we would have a higher expectation, a higher quality of expertise, you know, in the industry that we're in. Because I hear from clients that, that work with the banks all the time when they're asked, you know, am I going to be okay, like what do I need to do to retirement plan? And they're like, oh, you have 1.5 million, you'll be fine. What the fuck does that mean? It's like you just said, it's all relative. If you need 10 grand a month versus 5, it's going to be significantly different. Right.

Darryl:
Here's a knife to go into a gunfight. You'll be fine.

René:
Yeah, that's right. So as a segue to that, Darryl is the next piece is your estate plan. Right. So we do have clients that have an abundance of money. Doesn't matter where they pull it from, they're still going to have some leftover. Yeah, yeah, you can pull it all from your RSPs, you RIFF them, you pull monthly income, you never touch your non registered, you just leave your corporation there and you let the investment in the whole co grow until you die. You never sell your real estate, you take whatever rental income you get from that. It's if it's in the corp, you can just reinvest it.

René:
Like you can do that and not run out of money.

Darryl:
Yeah. Nice.

René:
Because you have an abundance of it.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
But when we run into those clients and we run the numbers, if we create an effective and a tax efficient decumulation strategy.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
That client that needs 12,000 a month is super efficient.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
We sometimes see 20 to 30% more net worth at death. Imagine having like $700,000 more left to your estate, but you still spent the same 12,000 with the same 2 1/2% inflation. That is how impactful proper decumulation is. We did a plan just last week. The client had like, it was like $690,000 richer by having the proper strategy in place.

Darryl:
Amazing.

René:
It's fucking mind blowing.

Darryl:
No kidding.

René:
People seem to attempt that on their own. If they're do it yourselfers or they rely on people that did an okay job at helping them accumulate wealth but have really no idea how to decumulate wealth. I really want the audience to reconsider or to really question the person they're working with to make sure that they have the right knowledge, the right skill set, the right tools to be able to help you properly decumulate wealth. It could mean hundred of thousands of dollars.

Darryl:
Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like, yes, we're picking on the bank or the advisors or whatever we want to call them. And that scares me in itself. But what scares me even more are friends of mine who, and I'm going to go back a couple episodes, are using self directed brokers like Questrade who, if they did accumulate some wealth in that again they're going to. It's not going to be as much as if they would have worked with somebody, but at the same time now they're on their own doing this.

René:
Can you imagine? What a clusterfuck.

Darryl:
No kidding.

René:
I'm sorry. This was probably the most all over the map episode I've done, but there's just so much to cover here that it's making my own head spin. I can't imagine the client. You need to question this to make sure that this is going to be done properly because you only have one kick at the can.

Darryl:
Like I made the joke about Rain Man, but it's, it's not a joke. When Tom Cruise drops the toothpicks and Rain man counts them up instantly. That's amazing. I need that guy on my side. And that's the way I look at it, is that as the average person who's dealing with the person of the bank, dealing with those so called advisors or working self directed with like a Questrade. When it's time for you to retire and those toothpicks drop and they're all in front of you, you have no fucking clue what to do. You're just guessing.

René:
Clueless.

Darryl:
I'm going to call you Rain Man from now on.

René:
You know what? Consider that a compliment. Yeah, definitely. Definitely a compliment.

Darryl:
Definitely. Definitely. Nice. We'll be right back.

René:
I'm exhausted, Darryl.

Darryl:
Do you want to take a nap while I talk? Is that will that?

René:
I don't usually do energy drinks, but I think I need to get like an Uber eats monster something.

Darryl:
Well, I feel like the pressure's on now. Like my subject here. I need to really wow you with.

René:
Yeah, just act all intense and stuff.

Darryl:
I'll do my best. I'll do my best to keep you up here.

René:
Oh, God. I can't be more apologetic about that.

Darryl:
You know what? I find the most important subjects in life are usually the dullest to talk about.

René:
Yeah, it's not untrue.

Darryl:
All right, let's talk about something that I think doesn't get enough love in the small business world. And it's what I like to call the "Wow Moment". And no, I'm not talking about the moment your husband finally finds your G spot. Hey, I have to get a dad joke in there. Actually, that is a crowd pleaser.

René:
Or the P spot. Sex with Emily, number one fan.

Darryl:
I'm talking about the moments in your business where you go beyond what's expected and make your customers feel like royalty. I know you love this.

René:
This is my favorite.

Darryl:
Yeah, so I know what people are asking. They're saying, what is the wow moment? And it's those little or not so little things you do to surprise and delight your clients or customers. And maybe it's sending a handwritten thank you note after a big purchase. Or maybe it's slipping a free sample into the order or remembering their birthday or throwing in a discount just because it doesn't have to be expensive or flashy. And you know this and you do it all the time. It just has to feel personal.

René:
Can I share a story that is so relevent to this?

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
And let's be clear. It does not have to be the owner. Right. If your team shares the same philosophy.

Darryl:
You're way ahead of me.

René:
It is so fucking impactful. So, last Friday, selfish me was craving pizza.

Darryl:
Pizza.

René:
And selfless me says, I don't want to eat pizza alone. So I said to the team, you guys want to grab pizza? And luck has it, at the. One of the last events that we went to at the auction, I was the highest bidder on pizza for a year. So I helped a good cause. And I had a shitload of pizzas I could eat with my team. So every once in a while, we'll grab a few pizzas. So I order three pizzas. I couldn't get through the line, so I drove down to order in person.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
And the girl at the front was just so pleasant. And I just kind of engaged in conversation. It was just a pleasant Friday conversation as I'm placing my order.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Well, I get my pizzas delivered. So I come back to the office, I pay for the delivery, and I get this written with a marker on the pizza. The first pizza box on the top says, you are a wonderful soul, exclamation mark, with a heart.

Darryl:
Nice. Nice.

René:
And then the next pizza is like, a drawing of, like, a little Bonhomme, and it's, like, in a little cartoon world where they have trees in the shape of hearts and stuff.

Darryl:
Nice.

René:
And the little Bonhomme is holding a heart balloon. And then the last box says, have a great day with a bunch of little, like, cartoon drawings with it.

Darryl:
Yeah. Yeah.

René:
And you know what? Just the fact that she acknowledged that she valued the conversation that I had with her, that we had that genuine interaction, it just fucking. It warmed my heart so much.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
And that I live to give people the wow factor because I know how good it feels, because I love to get it in return.

Darryl:
Well, that's the magic of it, right? When you do it right, your customers turn into walking billboards for your business.

René:
100%.

Darryl:
They'll tell their friends, they'll post on social media, they'll talk about it on a podcast..

René:
We're proof of it, man.

Darryl:
Exactly. And that's the thing. Boom. You've got free marketing all because you made someone feel special.

René:
And it's genuine, and it feels good.

Darryl:
Yes.

René:
It feels good to make people feel special.

Darryl:
Yeah. And think about it, Rene. People don't just buy products or services. They buy experiences. And if you're giving them an experience they can't stop talking about, you're already ahead of the game, and that's no different for you. You're a certified financial planner. People don't want financial planning from you, even though that's what your service is called. They want you to figure out how to grow their wealth so they can experience the lifestyle they want.

René:
100%.

Darryl:
Yeah, you see what I did there?

René:
Fuck your good.

Darryl:
Now, for those saying, how do I figure out what my wow moment is? Here's where small business owners often get stuck. How do you come up with a wow moment that works for your business? And I can't stress that enough. It has to be your business. How do you make it unique? How do you make it be natural and reflect your brand? Well, start with these steps. First, put yourself in your customer's shoes. I say this so often, and people think that they're putting themselves in the shoes, but they're really not. They're still looking from the outside in. Think about what you would love as a customer.

René:
It'd be tough, apparently, for me to put myself in your shoes because you just said the start of the show that you've got small feet. So I was like, Darryl, I'm really trying to put myself in your shoes, but I literally can't. It's physically impossible.

Darryl:
See, I wear shoes that are a little bit too big because my toes always so swelled up.

René:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Darryl:
So what would make your day? That's what you have to think about, right? Is it the little conveniences? Is it a personal touch? Or maybe it's a moment where someone genuinely cares about your experience. Right. The next is to ask your customers directly. Holy man. Do I ever preach this to all of my clients? And they all say, well, I don't want to bug my clients. To me, it sounds so simple and should be automatic, but often it's not. So if you're not sure, ask them. Ask a client or customer whether you're going to use a survey, because you're just.

Darryl:
You want to get general knowledge. But the best way, I think, is as easy as a casual conversation. Find out what matters to them, what frustrates them about other businesses, what makes them come back. Their answers will give you clues. And the next part is look for pain points. Find ways to solve little annoyances for your customers. You do this all the time?

René:
100%. We're very, very mindful of that.

Darryl:
Yeah. Like if you're a coffee shop and you have a long line every morning, offer little tiny free samples to those waiting. Or a rewards card for regulars that just says, thank you for sticking with us when it's a long line.

René:
Or how about this? Figuring out how to shorten your line.

Darryl:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

René:
Improve client experience.

Darryl:
Yeah. Like, we have a client that was an online clothing store, and I said to them one day, they were like, well, the pain points for our customer is just, you know, they get the clothes and if it doesn't fit, they have to send it back. There's the whole return process, which is a bit of a nightmare. And I get it, but there's not much we can do. We're an online store. So I told them, I said, send a note with every order that says, if something doesn't fit right, text us a selfie. And we got them to get a phone in their office that is literally just for this to text. And the card said, send us a selfie if it doesn't fit right, and we can help you into a better fit.

Darryl:
And that's way better than a customer getting a hoodie. And if it doesn't fit, they put it back in the package, they return it, but there's no guarantee they're going to buy a new one or exchange it. But this way, people were texting them a picture of themselves in the hoodie and say, yeah, see, it's a little bit big in the shoulders. And they would write back, perfect, we're going to do an exchange for you and we'll send you a medium instead of the large. And that was the thing, is that they were keeping those customers.

René:
And you're still getting the same T shirt sale.

Darryl:
Exactly. You still get the same sale. You're keeping that customer. But the customer feels special. Right. That was the wow moment. It cost them. Basically nothing to do.

René:
Creates a connection.

Darryl:
Yeah. And that wow moment should align with your brand. Right. If you're quirky, do something fun, like include a goofy sticker in every package or something. If you're a high end, focus on elegance, like beautifully wrapped purchases. But as I said, it doesn't have to break the bank. So let's keep it affordable because you don't want to drain your budget to do this.

René:
Yeah, but you know what? When you were helping me figure out what the look would be for our office.

Darryl:
Yes.

René:
You didn't say anything about breaking the bank.

Darryl:
Oh, I broke the bank.

René:
Yeah. Yeah. I had to change my own retirement plan many years later, thanks to you, sometimes it does break the bank.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
Just kidding.

Darryl:
So I mentioned this already, but handwritten notes in a digital age, literally, a thank you note feels extra special and costs next to nothing.

René:
Oh, dude, we sent all of our clients a fucking handwritten birthday card with a personalized note. I personally write a little note to everyone, and if I know it's someone that Ryan has a specific relationship with or Liz or whoever, I'll hand that card over. Be like, oh, it's Darryl's birthday next week. You want to put a little something in there? And they'll put their own little note because they have that special connection with that particular client.

Darryl:
Speaking of which, my last birthday. You wrote the message, and I still remember it. It just said, happy to have you as a client. Would have been nice about our friendship, about our podcast, like, something, but whatever.

René:
It is, Dear Mr. Boulley, I should do that for your next birthday. Dear Mr. Boulley, it's been a really great professional relationship. I wish that you have a really wonderful birthday. Regards to your wife, Erin.

Darryl:
Signed, Rene Boudreault.

René:
Write the full company name just to make sure you know which Rene Boudreault actually sent you a birthday card.

Darryl:
Oh, God, yeah.

René:
I had somebody trip me once, even just in the last year. They're like, oh, thanks for the birthday card. Not that you write that or anything. I'm like, Fuck you, man. That was my personal note with my penmanship, and I wrote that note specific to you. So, you have to retract that fucking chirp, because that's.

Darryl:
Well, and that's the thing. You're going to run into those types of people who don't really believe you do it. Majority will know that you write that.

René:
I've had new clients come in. Be like, I heard you put Bailey's in coffee if you want. Yeah. You know what, all those little things matter, though. You come into the office and even if it takes an extra five minutes for the meeting, but you actually just have, like, genuine nonsensical conversation while you're grinding beans and making a coffee from scratch. It just shows you genuine about paying attention to detail and actually giving a shit to give that personal experience. Right. That superior experience.

Darryl:
That's what I love about your office. I've seen it in real life, standing in your office and watching a client come in, and they're about to have a meeting with you. And I watch you bring them over to kind of like the. The open area, and you're making them a coffee. And I'll tell you, nothing drives me more crazy when someone says to me at a business, can I make you a coffee? And I'm like, yeah, sure. And they put. Put the Keurig pod in push down and push play on it, and then walk back and then they in most of the time it's forgotten about. They're like, come in the office, we'll get that in a second.

René:
Or one of those old friggin pots that have been sitting there since 7am that tastes like shit.

Darryl:
Exactly. I'm like, I'm like, don't offer me crap. Like making a nice espresso or whatnot. Doesn't take a lot of time or effort, but boy, is it so impactful.

René:
Just for the record though, since Gretzky opened up his distillery, we graduated to the Wayne Gretzky Irish cream, which is, in my opinion, far tastier than Bailey's.

Darryl:
Oh, Gretzky's is so much smoother than Bailey's.

René:
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And on the flip side though, I mean, as hard as you could try, as much attention as you could pay to try to make everyone happy, I remember this lady, she, I don't know, mid-70s maybe. And I said, would you like a cup of coffee? It was the first time she was in our office. So of course I'm all proud. I'm grinding beans, I'm making this delicious latte.

Darryl:
Oh, I can feel where this is going.

René:
I bring it to her and I don't know, we're like 10, 15 minutes in the conversation. And I could see her making a grimace every once in a while when she'd take a sip. And I'm like, something wrong with your coffee? She says, this is the absolute worst cup of coffee I've ever had in my life. Remind me when I come see you next time to bring my own Tim Hortons. I'm like, no, no, no. I lost to Tim Hortons.

Darryl:
You can't beat the old double double.

René:
Holy frick. I couldn't believe it. It's like Kia versus Lamborghini. Kia won. I was so beat up after that meeting, I said, guys, she hated my coffee. The whole, whole office was up in stitches.

Darryl:
Oh my God, that's hilarious.

René:
So funny. Anyway, I lost to Tim Hortons that day. Only once though. You know, my success is pretty good with my coffee making. But it just goes to show that you can't make everyone happy because everyone's tastes and desires are different. Experience expectations are different too.

Darryl:
Well, exactly. And that's like depending on your business. And this kind of goes to the free samples thing. If you sell a product, toss in a small freebie into the order. And I've talked about this in our marketing budget episodes before. It's a fricking sneak peek to what else you have to offer. It's a no brainer for me. I'm like, I don't get it.

Darryl:
People are like, oh, it cost me a ton of money. And I'm like, but that's part your marketing budget. That is your marketing.

René:
It could be very impactful. 100%.

Darryl:
And the other one that like a surprise discount. And when I say not just a discount, like don't just have a sale. 15% off this one. Anytime we do it with clients, people rave about this. Pick a random customer each week and apply a surprise discount at checkout. If you're an online store, send an email to that one person, someone who has ordered from you before, but make it personal. Send them a personalized message. Or again, if they're in store, you're talking to them, make it personalized and talk about stuff they've purchased before and say how much you appreciate it.

Darryl:
They're like, I can't stress this one enough. Ask them, is there anything we could have done to make that purchase better? And then they're going to tell you and then say, you know what, today I want to take 25% off your order. Whatever it is, 10%, 5%, whatever, they're going to appreciate it. It one, because you made it personalized, you, you asked them about their previous purchase. Two, you're going to get some feedback whether it's good or bad. And if it's bad, you have to take that feedback. Don't be defensive.

René:
I love going to a shop that you're a regular at, you know, because it's not always about gaining new business, sometimes about appreciating existing customers. And I love it. When I go to a shop, let's say it's a spot where I buy all my protein in my supplements and then they end up giving you some extra apparel. They're like, here, here's a nice hoodie, right? You just got these printed and it's like, right, man. Especially when it's not junk, right? One thing I learned from you is you could buy a thousand cheap ball caps for next to nothing, but you give those out, they're so ugly, they fit poorly, no one likes them, they end up in the closet or they throw them out. So no one wears them. So if you pay extra and you get some really cool hats like this nice Taming the Hustle hat I'm wearing right now, by the way. You're a walking billboard because you love wearing it.

René:
Like, how often do we run into people that are sporting the hashtag plan with jack hats? They're like, man, this is my favorite hat. Like, I'll run into a dude at kitty and tired. He's like, this hat, man is like my favorite. I was at a birthday party recently, my brother Andre was wearing our Taming the Hustle hat and he's like, dude, this is like my favorite.

Darryl:
Nice.

René:
It's not always for me, always about gaining new customers is showing appreciation to your existing 100%.

Darryl:
Yes. Another free one that you could do is what I call the first dibs perk.

René:
Please do tell.

Darryl:
Yeah, let your customers know about sales or new arrival before anyone else. Before you post it on Instagram. Tell them when it's coming soon. If they think they're part of something that's like a secret that's coming up. And like I said, call it the first dibs club. They are going to feel more appreciated once it comes live. If you message, everyone said, hey, we have a new product coming in one month's time. We wanted you to be the first to know about it.

Darryl:
I know it sounds ridiculous put in there, please don't tell anybody. This is a secret only for you to know. And then when it comes out in a month, there's going to be a lot of those customers who are just going to buy it because they're like, I was part of this. I was part of this secret.

René:
That sense of belonging that people just long for. Like, we've talked about quadrillion times.

Darryl:
And the key to all this is to make it work and be genuine. And if it feels forced or gimmicky, it won't land.

René:
Wow. What a great topic.

Darryl:
I know. And just I want to give a couple more points here. The first is make it shareable. Design these moments that customers either want to post about on social media, they're going to flap their gums and tell their friends about it. Right? My last point, and you brought this up earlier, and I think it's such a huge thing to do, is to train your team. Empower your team to create these wow moments on the fly. Give them the freedom to offer these small perks or solve problems creatively. It shouldn't just be the owner of the company or the manager or, you know, somebody in charge.

Darryl:
Make the team feel great and your customers feel great at the same time. Nothing makes your team feel more like they are part of this business than letting them do these types of things.

René:
No kidding. Encouraging it and letting them come up with their own ideas on how to do it too. Because then the genuine sentiment is felt when it comes from that particular person. Right.

Darryl:
Exactly.

René:
I love it. This really is the wow factor.

Darryl:
I know. Here's the thing. A wow moment strategy isn't just about making the customers happy. It's about making them loyal. It's about turning them into super fans who not only stick around, but bring their friends with them. And in a world where competition is just a click away, that loyalty is frickin priceless. So I want to challenge you to this.

Darryl:
Everyone. Everyone listening. Go back to your business and find one way, just one, to surprise and delight your customers this week. Whether it's a handwritten note, a surprise upgrade, a goofy bumper sticker, do something that gets them talking.

René:
There's something to be said about a business that is transactional. Like, let's say, I don't know, a lawyer.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
If they find out that, you know, your brother passed away or your mother passed away and they just shoot you a text and just say, hey, man, I'm really sorry. I'm thinking about you. You know, I can't imagine how difficult this is. You know, just, if you need anything, we're here to help.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
Nothing to do about their business. Nothing. Just showing genuine compassion about that. Like reaching out when someone is in need. Need is very, very. But it has to be genuine, has to be heartfelt. But it costs nothing to do that. Right.

René:
And then all of a sudden, your business with them is no longer transactional. It becomes that relationship and the loyalty that you're just talking about.

Darryl:
Well, exactly. There is a pet store in the US that is famous for. You come in, you register your pets, just like we do here in Canada. You put in your pet's name when they were born. But there's a thing where it's an account online so that if your pet passes away, that they want to know about it. So if your pet passes away, you're going to click on the little link and let them know, please stop sending me emails about this because my pet has passed away. And they actually send you flowers.

René:
Oh, that's nice.

Darryl:
Right? Can you imagine the pet store, which feels just like a big corporation and transactional, but they actually send you flowers and say, hey, we actually care.

René:
Yeah, that's sweet. Sweet.

Darryl:
Listen, you mentioned hats before our Taming the Hustle hats.

René:
Yeah, man.

Darryl:
We should probably give a couple away.

René:
Yeah, I love that idea. They're awesome.

Darryl:
So I'll tell you what, if you are listening right now, this is the only way to get these hats because I'm not going to post this on social media because it's not for the people who aren't listening to our podcast already. You have to have listened to this podcast. So go on Instagram, make sure you're following us, and send us a DM that says, I want that hat. That's it. That's all you have to do to try to win.

René:
Can I do that? That?

Darryl:
No. No.

René:
I'd love a backup.

Darryl:
You're wearing the hat right now.

René:
I've only got one. What if I get sweat on it or something?

Darryl:
I know a guy who knows a guy. All right, that's it for me. We'll be right back.

Darryl:
So I've mentioned this before about myself. Aside from the whole advertising and marketing stuff that I do, I also work in TV and film industry as a writer. And recently I've come to the realization that I use movies and TV for more than just entertainment. I use it to help others. And whether that's through conversation with friends or family members, actually even my DMs on social media, I've had this experience. And here's the thing about film and tv. The good stuff isn't just a watch and forget it. Good writers use scripts not only to tell a story, but to create something bigger for its audience.

Darryl:
So for me, I take those stories that reflect human experiences, challenges, triumphs, and I use them as valuable life lessons that resonate in our own lives.

René:
Yeah, I love that even sometimes some one liners kind of redefine, you know, how we think about things.

Darryl:
Yeah. And like, I want to give an example here. Let's take the movie Rocky. It's that whole underdog story of the boxer Rocky Balboa, who teaches us that success isn't about avoiding failure. It's about how many times you're willing to get back up.

René:
Yeah.

Darryl:
Right. And we talk about this all the time. You get kicked and you're down and it's about fighting back. Whether you're facing a challenge at work or in your personal life, resilience and hard work can take you further than raw talent alone.

René:
100%

Darryl:
And like I said, I have these conversations with friends and family members. And I'm very big on mental health, so I often Open up my DMs on social media and say, you know, if you ever just need to Talk or have someone listen, let's chat. Shoot me a message. And I end up having these conversations. And I'll use movies as a way to say, you know, go watch this movie, because I think it's going to get you out of your funk and understand that life isn't over at this point. Or, you know, the work struggle that you're having is just a. It's a. It's a bump in the road and you're going to get over it.

Darryl:
Right?

René:
Yeah, exactly. Except you say, oh, you can reach out if you need to talk, but every time I reach out to you, you just don't shut up. I don't get a chance to talk. You talk too much. I was like, well, he offered, but I didn't really get to say anything. But movies are like, could be a total mood changer if you pick the right movie. Right. It kind of sets the tone for your train of thought.

Darryl:
Yeah. And that's the thing with movies. The takeaway is simple. And. And when I'm talking to a friend who is taking a beating in life and life has knocked them down, I tell them to channel their inner rocky. Right. Keep pushing forward. And it's funny how often the light bulb clicks for people when they compare it to a movie or show.

René:
Yeah. And it's not always the, I got knocked down and I need to get back up again. It could be like one. One that really resonates with me. When you started this topic was Mr. Deeds.

Darryl:
Yes.

René:
Right. So Mr. Deeds inherits billions of dollars from his long lost uncle, but the whole moral of the story is that it doesn't change him as a person because money does often change people.

Darryl:
Oh, no kidding.

René:
Right? So Deeds is still the dude that owns a little pizza shop in his hometown and stays true to himself and doesn't let money become, you know, the driving force of his decision making and his life and everything else. So, like, it's. It's to me is one of my favorite movies in the planet. And it just, it. I don't know, it does something to me. Movies, I think, are a lot more influential in our lives than we give them credit for.

Darryl:
Oh, 100%. And that's what fears me is I'm constantly posting stuff on social media and, and talking about, you know, the movie experience, because the social media and the whole scroll through type generation, where it's like our attention span can't be more than a few minutes. It scares me that movies are slowly disappearing. People have stopped going to theaters, trying to get funding for Movies that are more independent, like Mr. Deeds or, you know, like a Rocky, are far and far less being made because it's not a superhero movie that's going to make billions of dollars. But those are the stories that are most impactful. I won't lie. Yes, Iron man has great messaging in it, but I learned a fuckload more from Rocky than I ever will from Iron Man.

René:
True. And you know the industry a hell of a lot more than I do, for sure.

Darryl:
Yeah. And it's. That's what worries me. Like, Netflix kind of got caught in this just recently about telling production companies and producers and writers make things that people don't have to pay attention to that can. A movie can just be on in the background.

René:
Wow.

Darryl:
Which is sad to me.

René:
Interesting.

Darryl:
It's. Yeah. It's taken so much away because people. And I actually saw this on Saturday Night Live a few weekends ago. It was a joke about how when someone is on TikTok or Instagram or whatever, they'll do that in the movie theater. Because there's one moment in the movie where it's like, for a minute, it's some exposition that's a little bit boring. And people instantly in the theater, grab their phones and they start swiping.

René:
ADHD

Darryl:
And it's unfortunate, but that's the thing with these movies or TV shows. There's so much knowledge that you could be taking from them. And I'm talking about the good ones. There are a lot of bad TV shows that are literally just there to try to entertain you. Mindless. Yeah. And. And that's not what I'm talking about.

Darryl:
Like, for myself, it wasn't until 2020 that something that I've always practiced in life came to kind of the small screen. And I have multiple people in my life who have nicknamed me Ted Lasso, which I thought was just because I looked goofy. But I think since the moment I left the womb, I was always trying to help make people's lives easier or better. Like, I think actually cut my own umbilical cord and made the doctor a coffee.

René:
Yeah. And you. You mop your own fluids off the floor.

Darryl:
Exactly. But that's the essence of Ted Lasso. Right? He demonstrates that kindness and optimism that can change the world around you. It wasn't just about a soccer team. It was about treating people with empathy and understanding and transforming that struggling soccer team and to build meaningful relationships because it showed that when we all work together, we can make some really fucking cool shit happen.

René:
Yeah. Such a great, great series, man. I think I've watched it three full times over.

Darryl:
Same. It's. It's. It never gets old.

René:
So. Good. Good one. When you were speaking of superheroes.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
The one that I often say to where the team is is a line from Spider man, which you'll know what I'm talking about is, with great power comes great responsibility.

Darryl:
Yeah, it's a great one.

René:
We have quite a few clients and we manage a pretty large block of business, and people have come to trust and rely on us to steer them right. So it's our responsibility to take that seriously so that we can deliver on that, because our failures will have direct impact in the success of the financial lives of the people that we work with.

Darryl:
Yeah, no kidding.

René:
It could be very powerful.

Darryl:
Yeah.

René:
So it's very, very important that we take what we do very seriously. Getting back to with great power comes great responsibility is something that really resonates with us. For me, anyway, in particular. Movies are fucking awesome, man.

Darryl:
So you're kind of a bit half Rain Man, half Spider Man.

René:
I'm really not that special. But what. What I can say is that I'm. I'm very mindful of, you know, what it is that we do for the people we work with, and I want to make sure that. That we do it right.

Darryl:
Yeah, for sure. Well, and that's the thing, like I mentioned Ted Lasso, because even though I did much of this before, I often find myself, and I know it sounds funny to say, but I find myself thinking, what would Ted Lasso do? And it often comes back to the fact that kindness isn't a weakness. It's a fucking superpower.

René:
Right. I love that you said that. Fuck. So many people don't fucking see it that way.

Darryl:
Well, and that's why I listen to people. Like, I know I don't listen to you when you talk, because I like to talk over you, but when I'm with somebody, whether it's good or bad things they have to talk about. This is why, like, when I see a stranger struggling on social media, I send them a DM just to say hello and introduce myself, just so they know they're not alone. Right. It's those little things that make big impacts in people's lives. And I. I find it funny. Some people have said to me, they're like, that's pretty creepy that you just randomly message a stranger.

Darryl:
And it's like, I. I don't send them a creepy message. Like, oh, I like what you're wearing in that picture. No, I try to find something in their feed that I can relate to and strike up a conversation. Because sometimes people just need somebody to talk to that's not in their inner circle. Right?

René:
100%, Darryl.

Darryl:
So I want everyone to reflect on your favorite TV shows or movies. Think about those shows that resonate the most with you. What themes or moments really stand out. Here's what I'm going to make you do a little bit of work. Write it down, identify a specific lesson lesson and how to apply that to your current challenges or goals. So whether it's the Spider man thing or the Ted Lasso thing or the Rocky thing or something else that resonates with you, literally, just write it down, stick it on your fridge.

René:
Or share it with us on social media.

Darryl:
Or share it with us on social media and then take action. Use those lessons as a guide for making decisions, overcoming obstacles, or approaching your relationships. Because as I said a minute ago, movies and TVs aren't just for an escape. They can inspire you to live a better, fuller, and more meaningful life.

René:
I agree, Darryl.

Darryl:
All right, that's it. Grab some popcorn, revisit your favorites and see what lessons pop out.

René:
Go watch Happy Gilmore.

Darryl:
It's sad that Bob Barker has passed away, but that inspired me to beat up a game show host.

René:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Hey, Mr. Deeds. Happy Gilmore. Maybe just have an Adam Sandler thing.

Darryl:
Renee, this was such a great episode. I'm so thankful we get to do this together.

René:
Yeah, I'm grateful for. Sure, sure. This is. This is a lot of fun today.

Darryl:
As always. Thanks for joining us. Hit the follow button wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. Follow us on Instagram for more of this chaos. And seriously, tell your friends about us. Don't let us be a secret. Sharing is caring. Until next time, stay awesome.

Darryl:
Take care.