Reaching Untapped Markets and Reverse Mortgages

Darryl [00:00:01]:
Is this thing on?

René [00:00:01]:
Testing, testing. One, two, three.

Darryl [00:00:04]:
That's right. We are back.

René [00:00:07]:
Yeah, I feel rusty.

Darryl [00:00:09]:
I know. Season three, though.

René [00:00:10]:
Third time's a charm.

Darryl [00:00:12]:
We didn't screw it up that bad in the first two seasons.

René [00:00:15]:
Whether we did or not, it's been a lot of fun.

Darryl [00:00:17]:
It has been. I'm super excited for season three.

René [00:00:20]:
Yeah, no kidding. Me too.

Darryl [00:00:21]:
So how was your break?

René [00:00:22]:
I don't remember it.

Darryl [00:00:23]:
You don't remember it at all?

René [00:00:25]:
Holy frig. It was busy.

Darryl [00:00:27]:
Yeah.

René [00:00:28]:
Seems everyone we talked to, it just whizzed by. It's crazy.

Darryl [00:00:30]:
It was crazy busy. You know, I was spending time in Paris and Italy and deep in the pyramids in Egypt.

René [00:00:38]:
Yeah, yeah. I've been following you on social media.

Darryl [00:00:41]:
Yeah, just kicking back and relax. No, I'm a business owner, so I work the whole goddamn time.

René [00:00:48]:
Yeah, well, we have to work at changing that for you.

Darryl [00:00:51]:
I know, I know. You know what? I did it to myself. This break. I put a lot on my plate. Like, aside from the daily grind with Hepburn Productions, which I love, I was also writing a film and consult on a TV series that's in development and also developing a TV series with a group of people as well. So it was a bit of a grind.

René [00:01:12]:
Yes, yes, I know. You kind of looped me into that. That's awesome. Well, it's nice to switch things up, you know, that keeps things fresh and interesting when moments could get dull a little bit with work.

Darryl [00:01:21]:
Oh, exactly. It's funny though. Every time I tell somebody that I work in the film industry as well, people are always like, "oh, so you must do porn, right?" Yeah.

René [00:01:31]:
Well, that's what I'm doing to keep things fresh is I started an Only Fans page.

Darryl [00:01:35]:
I wish I was doing porn. Those guys make like 1000 bucks for 20 minutes of cardio. Meanwhile, I'm over here doing 18 hour days, zero abs to show for it, and I'm still counting on you to work magic to grow my portfolio.

René [00:01:46]:
Yeah, not mentioning you get paid to do your absolute favourite thing on the planet.

Darryl [00:01:51]:
Exactly. Trust me, if I was in the porn industry, you would know, because I wouldn't be wearing pants. This is Taming the Hustle...

René [00:02:07]:
or Something of the Sorts.

Darryl [00:02:24]:
Oh, it's so good to be back.

René [00:02:26]:
Other than some of our voiceovers and radio ads, I feel like I needed to give the recording room a little dusting before today.

Darryl [00:02:33]:
Yeah, yeah. You were missing me I know. That's what it was.

René [00:02:37]:
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I even wore our new Taming the Hustle hats for the special occasion. Aren't I handsome?

Darryl [00:02:44]:
They're pretty handsome. We're gonna have to get some more made so we can put them up on the site or something, but they are pretty cool.

René [00:02:50]:
They're awesome. All right, what are we talking about today there, big guy?

Darryl [00:02:53]:
Well, today I think we're gonna dive into something that could really give your business that much needed boost, and that's reaching untapped markets.

René [00:03:01]:
Is that even possible nowadays?

Darryl [00:03:03]:
It is. And we're always talking about how to DIY your marketing and stuff on this podcast. So I want to explore how you identify these new customer segments that might not be your usual crowd. And I'm talking about groups like older adults, retirees, or even those folks you never considered in your business before.

René [00:03:22]:
So if you're speaking to the older audience, DIY is do it yourself.

Darryl [00:03:26]:
That's right.

René [00:03:27]:
You're gonna have to, like, explain things along the way.

Darryl [00:03:29]:
Well, no, I'm talking to the business owners, and they're gonna talk to old folks.

René [00:03:33]:
Oh, okay. Okay. The old folks.

Darryl [00:03:38]:
Well, and the reason I wanted to bring this up today is because reaching new markets is important, and we've discussed this many times with your company where it's always evolving. Right. And you just get to a point sometimes where you feel like you've plateaued with your marketing, and it might be because you're focusing too hard on existing customer base and not thinking about who else might need what you offer.

René [00:03:59]:
Please do tell a wise one.

Darryl [00:04:01]:
Well, you've heard this before. We always say, don't put your eggs in one basket. Right. And especially when there's more baskets out there. So how do you identify these untapped markets?

René [00:04:10]:
Well, let's be clear. Not putting all your eggs in one basket like in my industry. I used to hear this a lot is, oh, I've got some money at this bank and at that bank and with this broker. And all of a sudden you're getting conflicting advice.

Darryl [00:04:22]:
Yeah.

René [00:04:23]:
All your eggs in one basket doesn't mean choose multiple marketing consultants or marketing firms you work with. So please, please elaborate on that.

Darryl [00:04:32]:
It's focusing your demographics and not having one specific demographic. Yes. I say you need to figure out who your target market is, but after that, you still want to sell to other people.

René [00:04:44]:
Would we use the word sell? Darryl, Come on. That's such a faux pas in our office.

Darryl [00:04:48]:
I know. I know.

René [00:04:50]:
We don't use that word. I hate it.

Darryl [00:04:50]:
I know. So let's go with older audiences and retirees because they're often forgot about. And I know there are endless untapped markets that we could talk about, but let's just focus on them for now. And before you start thinking, nah, Darryl, that's not my audience. Just hear me out for two seconds. This group, and you can attest to this, being a financial planner, has disposable income and often more free time. And they appreciate good customer service.

René [00:05:18]:
No kidding. You know what? They are amazing clients to have.

Darryl [00:05:21]:
Yeah.

René [00:05:22]:
They have the disposable income, they have common sense, they have a head on their shoulders. They're receptive to the right kind of attention. And usually you end up building a better connection with them because they're more open to that personalized service than any other generation, in my opinion. With some exceptions, of course.

Darryl [00:05:38]:
Oh, true. And a lot of business owners overlook them because they're stuck marketing to a younger crowd, thinking that's where all the cool kids are. Right. And here's the thing. The cool kids are likely broke. But retirees, they have cash to spend. But you have to approach them right? So the question is, how do you tap into a market without making it feel like you're just chasing money? You mentioned that about saying the word sale. And that's the thing.

Darryl [00:06:01]:
We don't want to just chase their dollar, we want to chase them. We want them to have the experience. It's about understanding their needs and adapting your messaging and making it genuine and be inclusive to their age group. So let's break it down into some actionable type tips. So first is you have to adjust your messaging. Think about the language you use in your marketing materials. Are you leaning too heavily into slang and memes and pop culture references or just simply photos of young people? That stuff is great for certain demographics, but it might not resonate with an older audience. And for this group, clear and straightforward communication is key.

Darryl [00:06:36]:
And I know, like, I bug my parents all the time. I'm like, why don't you understand what I'm talking about? I might be overcomplicating stuff when I'm talking to them.

René [00:06:44]:
Because you say DIY. Way too much.

Darryl [00:06:47]:
OMG.

René [00:06:48]:
And you say like too much. Like, like, like, spit it out. They just want to hear the message.

Darryl [00:06:53]:
Yeah, like, focus on the benefits of your product or service, not just the features. So I want to give you an example here. Instead of promoting, like a high tech gadget as cutting edge or next gen, you could say things like, easy to use with a Simple setup, process. Perfect for staying connected to loved ones. See what I did there? It's all about making them feel relevant.

René [00:07:14]:
It's beautiful because they are relevant.

Darryl [00:07:17]:
They are relevant 100%. The next is the platforms they're on. And no, it's not TikTok. Older adults spend so much time on Facebook. And yes, I know it's not the trendiest platform, and I know I fucking hate them more than anything else on the planet, but it's effective. And when I say I hate them, I hate Facebook, not older people.

René [00:07:37]:
Yeah, no, I kind of figured.

Darryl [00:07:39]:
But if you're a small business owner, you want to be where your audience is, not where you. You just feel comfortable. And I get that a lot with clients, especially DIYers, who I consult with. They often get stuck in that. They're like, oh, I don't go on Facebook. I don't really use it. I really know how. I don't go on TikTok because I don't know how.

Darryl [00:07:58]:
You have to step out of the box. Right. That's what business is all about.

René [00:08:01]:
It's not about you.

Darryl [00:08:02]:
It's not about you. Exactly.

René [00:08:04]:
It's true. If you put a billboard sign on the highway, but none of your target audience drives.

Darryl [00:08:08]:
Exactly.

René [00:08:09]:
Right.

Darryl [00:08:10]:
Yeah.

René [00:08:10]:
I had this one guy, a bit of a handful. He says, what the hell's this hashtag thing on the radio ad? I asked everybody, what's a hashtag? He said, why don't you just put your fucking phone number? I'm like, well, because. Because you're not my target audience.

Darryl [00:08:25]:
Exactly. That's so funny. But then in saying that, I remember this story a while ago, and we looked at that and said, we have to target those types of people, too. And that's what we did. We went on Facebook and those groups on Facebook or those local community pages and targeted Facebook ads, they can go a long way reaching these older adults.

René [00:08:47]:
Well, I find I communicate way better on Facebook than any other platform because that's where 80% of my audience is.

Darryl [00:08:58]:
And you're old.

René [00:08:58]:
I'm old. I'm part of that demographic.

Darryl [00:08:58]:
But get this. YouTube, I know this sounds strange, is also huge for this demographic. I know a lot of people think that they're not, but these older adults are searching for tutorials, how to videos. Even entertainment content. So if your product or service lends itself to a video demonstration or creating a simple YouTube video explaining how it works or the benefits or whatever, you'll be surprised how many retirees out there are looking up tutorials on the new smart tv or the best shampoo to use or are there sex toys for older adults?

René [00:09:30]:
Yeah, absolutely. I won't divulge my mom's age, but like, we'll go to her house and she'll have this meal like my mom's cooked for us forever and been very traditional meals. And all of a sudden she's got this brand new thing on the plate and I'm like, holy crap, mom, this is delicious. Oh yeah, I found it on YouTube. I just, you know, looked it up. Was looking for something fresh.

Darryl [00:09:49]:
Exactly.

René [00:09:50]:
It's awesome. She never ceases to impress me. I mean, that generation, when they start to use the Internet, you know, to gather information and stuff, Holy man, they're unstoppable.

Darryl [00:09:59]:
Oh, 100%. Another thing is offering in person or virtual events. I know not everyone loves hosting events, but this can be a game changer. Offering workshops or webinars, or even small in person gatherings can be a great way to attract an older audience. Like, think about it, many retirees have the time to attend, right? And like, for example, if you're a cafe, host a tech for beginners class with coffee on the side, or if you're a fitness studio, why not host a gentle yoga session for beginners?

René [00:10:26]:
I had an older client, recently retired, who was wealthy.

Darryl [00:10:30]:
Yeah.

René [00:10:30]:
Met with them yesterday in our office and we were talking about the difference between us and the banks because the conversation came up and, you know, lack of continuity and you know, especially in northern communities like us, you know, there's really not a ton of skill in the banking system. Right. So whenever there's someone with a decent skill set, they're usually scooped up, you know, at head office or whatever or in the larger centers to service a broader audience. So, you know, say like my advisor at whatever bank, have a specialist like you that would be available, you know, every three months and we'd have to do a virtual meeting. And he says, yeah, yeah, I would take these types of in person personal meetings that are, you know, just one on one in a closed room over any virtual meeting any day for sure. Although they'll do them, they still prefer that human connection. And you and I are a lot like that as well too, kind of attribute our old souls.

René [00:11:23]:
But no, there's. There's something very, very powerful about the human connection. And you have to cater to that older audience. If they want to see you in person, you got to figure a way to make it happen.

Darryl [00:11:32]:
Well, and that doesn't just attract new customers, it creates exactly what you said, like an emotional connection with your brand. Right.

René [00:11:38]:
Real relationships.

Darryl [00:11:39]:
If you're providing something of value before you ask them to spend a dime, that's huge. Which actually leads me to my last point. Tailor your promotions. All right, here's a little insider tip. Consider crafting promotions specifically for this demographic. And, for example, offer a seniors day discount once a week, once a month. Or package up some of your products into a bundle that makes sense for their needs. If you own a bookstore, try a retirement reading bundle feature like mysteries or biographies.

Darryl [00:12:10]:
Or if you're a restaurant, offer a golden hour special with a smaller portion at a better price. We've talked about this before. Your marketing budget, when you're thinking outside the box. If you're going to offer a golden hour special at your restaurant, it's smaller portions, it's a better price, but it is a small demographic that you're catering to. So if you're breaking even at the end of the day and that's part of your marketing budget, here's the thing. This generation loves to spread the word about good places.

René [00:12:37]:
Yeah. Is there a risk that you could negatively impact other generations if you specifically target that older demographic, though?

Darryl [00:12:46]:
No. As long as you're still doing your marketing as you are beforehand. Right. If you just stop all your marketing efforts and put it into this demographic, say the older demographic, then, yeah, people are going to be like, oh, that's only for old people. If it's out there and it's different for each demographic, you're going to target to the right people. If you're on Facebook doing targeted ads there for the older demographic and they're coming in for the golden hour special, and then you're on TikTok and you're saying, the 10pm Dance party at our restaurant, and you're specific to that younger generation, you're going to get both crowds coming. Right. So you got to be strategic.

Darryl [00:13:22]:
You got to think about it. And it's not just about offering discounts. It's about making them feel valued. Right. And a little acknowledgement goes a long way and they're more likely to become repeat customers. And just what I said a few minutes ago, they love to spread the word about good experiences with a business. Whereas a lot of younger generations, you'll do something great for your business. You'll go the extra mile, they'll thank you.

Darryl [00:13:45]:
And very rare. Do you get that review online and you're frustrated. You're like, I busted my balls for these people. Right. And it feels like you feel helpless sometimes. Because you're like, I'm doing everything and I'm not getting the reviews. Or people aren't liking my content on Instagram. Or I post this really cool video that took me hours on end to make, and no one's liking it or commenting.

Darryl [00:14:08]:
This older generation does that with word of mouth, so that's why it's important to tap in. But let's be real for a second.

René [00:14:15]:
I'm always real.

Darryl [00:14:17]:
For real. Marketing to new segments takes time, and it's an investment worth making. You might not see the results overnight, but if you're consistent, you'll start to see those new faces walking through the door. Or new orders online from customers you've never heard of. Think of it like planting seeds. If you put in the effort now, in a few months, you'll have a whole new crop of loyal customers.

René [00:14:37]:
Or nine months, depending on the seed.

Darryl [00:14:42]:
All right, that's it for me. Adjust your messaging. Use platforms where older adults hang out, offer events, tailor your promotions, give these a try and see what works best for you. And remember, the goal here isn't just to expand your audience, but create a deeper connection with new customers. And in business, that's how you really grow. We'll be right back.

Darryl [00:15:18]:
Speaking of old people, I see this on TV all the time. You got Kurt Browning talking about a reverse mortgage. You got Tom Selleck in the US he's talking about a reverse mortgage. I'm sitting in my house looking at this beautiful home, saying, is that a thing? Like, is this a scam? Like is. I'd like to think Kurt Browning's not telling me lies. Tell me about reverse mortgages.

René [00:15:41]:
Been bugging me about this one for a while.

Darryl [00:15:43]:
All right, what do I need to know? Can I call them today at my age and say, let's reverse this mortgage?

René [00:15:50]:
Fuck no, you can't!

Darryl [00:15:52]:
Fine.

René [00:15:53]:
There's quite a bit to them, actually. But I'll give you the Cole's note version just to get the wheels turning. And if anyone that's listening is serious about needing this as a means to free up some money in. You know, it's tied up equity, right? Like, especially in the city. For us we can buy really nice homes at a decent price up north.

Darryl [00:16:11]:
I traded my bicycle for a bungalow up there?

René [00:16:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. My road bike's worth more than most houses. Well, that. That's changing with the mining industry boom up north. But nonetheless, the difference is there's a lot more need for reverse mortgage type products in the city because I've often used the example of a teacher. Right. So Erin's a teacher.

René [00:16:31]:
Whether she's teaching in Southern Ontario or Northern Ontario, the salary will be the same.

Darryl [00:16:35]:
Yes.

René [00:16:36]:
So if you buy a $1.4 million home in the city versus the same house, that's going to cost you at most 500,000 here, you know, 400. So three times the price. Four times the price. You may be spending your entire working career just paying off the mortgage and not really having the ability to save much in investments. Yeah, that's just the harsh reality of people with, with, I wouldn't say limited income, but, you know, with. With a ceiling of income and having to pay a very high amount of money for either a condo or a home. So it could be used as a really useful tool to free up equity in your home without having to sell your home later in life. Okay, so essentially when they created reverse mortgages, and of course these guys are advertising them because there's money to be made.

René [00:17:19]:
Right. Because they're fairly expensive and we don't need to get into all of the weeds. But, we'll go into three different types of, I would say, products or ways that you can liberate some equity in your home as you get older. And when I say older is, you know, you go on the government side. I checked out the Government of Canada site and they talk about reverse mortgages being available after 55. You know, I've seen some companies offer them earlier and I've seen some, you know, later. But whatever. It's, it's.

René [00:17:46]:
The thing is, is the earlier you start, the more compounding interest you're going to accumulate and the more it's going to cost you.

Darryl [00:17:52]:
Gotcha.

René [00:17:52]:
So I'll go through the different costs and when it's appropriate to entertain this reverse mortgage type strategy. So the first one is a true reverse mortgage where you have a contract with a company and they'll give you X amount of money per month. Okay, so let's say you apply for a reverse mortgage at 68 years old or 70 years old, and you need an extra $2,500 a month to live in your home until you decide to sell and you negotiate, or probably not, they'll let you know what the interest rate's going to be and whatever it is that you accumulate when you sell the house, let's say you've received payments and interest worth 500,000 and you sell your home for a million and a half. When you either die and your estate sells it for you, or you decide to go into retirement home or whatever, and you sell for a million and a half, well, then you'll be left with a million bucks because you have to repay the loan in the interest.

Darryl [00:18:40]:
Okay?

René [00:18:40]:
So when you receive the proceeds of this monthly amount from the reverse mortgage, you're not actually making mortgage payments. You're accumulating compound interest that you owe to the lender on a monthly basis. So if you're receiving 2,500 bucks a month plus a 6% interest or 7% interest, and you're there for 10 years, then at the end of that, when you sell or die, you have to repay the payments you've received plus the interest that's been accrued. So you're not coming out with any out of pocket. So the second one would be a home equity loan. So this is the closest thing to a traditional mortgage. So let's say your mortgage is paid off. It's essentially, they call it second mortgages or they. They call it remortgaging.

René [00:19:16]:
Right. So your mortgage is paid off, your house is worth a million and a half, and you go and apply for home equity loan. Typically for all three of these, they'll lend you about 50 to 60% of the value of the home. So if your house is a million bucks, they'll lend you 550,000 total.

Darryl [00:19:32]:
Gotcha.

René [00:19:33]:
So the difference with the reverse mortgage and the home equity loan is that they're actually going to give you all the money right away, and then you're making a mortgage payment back to repay the mortgage. Now, the downfall, the most expensive part of this deal is that you're going to be paying interest on the 550,000 that they lent you..

Darryl [00:19:48]:
From the time you receive it.

René [00:19:50]:
Whereas the reverse mortgage, you're only accumulating or accruing interest on the monthly payments that they give you. Right. So in month one, you're only paying interest on 2,500.

Darryl [00:20:01]:
Yeah.

René [00:20:01]:
And then after 12 months, you're paying interest on 30,000, et cetera, et cetera.

Darryl [00:20:06]:
Gotcha.

René [00:20:06]:
Plus the compounding interest. So then what happens is you now have 550,000 in your bank account to do whatever it is that you need to do. But then you have a mortgage payment with interest that you have to repay. So if current interest rates are 4.25%, then you're repaying that 550,000 over X amount of years.

René [00:20:24]:
At 4.25%.

Darryl [00:20:25]:
Yeah, yeah.

René [00:20:26]:
So you'll end up paying likely more interest, but the interest rate is typically lower than the reverse mortgage.

Darryl [00:20:31]:
Oh, okay.

René [00:20:31]:
That's the thing with the reverse mortgages. The lender will be charging a higher interest for that type of. And then the third one is a HELOC, a home equity line of credit.

Darryl [00:20:41]:
Yeah, I've heard of this.

René [00:20:41]:
So that's kind of a hybrid of the two, is that you don't necessarily have to take, you know, a specific $2,500 a month, but you go and apply for it. And if they grant you 55% of the value of your house, and your house is worth a million bucks, and you'll have a line of credit of 550,000. So you might not need any money in the first month or first two months, three months. And then all of a sudden you're short because you're going on vacation and you don't want to jeopardize or you don't want to reduce, you know, the quality of your retired life. So then you, you need ten grand. So then all of a sudden, you start to accumulate interest on whatever it is that you have actually pulled from your line of credit.

René [00:21:16]:
So you no longer have a zero balance. You now have 10,000 plus the interest that's going to accrue.

Darryl [00:21:21]:
Yeah.

René [00:21:21]:
And a lot of the lenders will want you to make the minimum payment, which is typically the interest payment.

Darryl [00:21:25]:
Gotcha. Which makes sense.

René [00:21:26]:
So you have the official reverse mortgage, where you sign a contract with the devil at a high interest rate, and they're going to send you a monthly amount until you die or sell. And then they recoup that when you sell your property or you pass away and your estate sells it.

Darryl [00:21:39]:
Gotcha.

René [00:21:40]:
Right. And then you have the traditional mortgage, which is the home equity loan, and then you have to pay interest on the full amount and repay it as if it were a traditional mortgage. And then you have the line of credit where you're going to pay likely the interest back, but you only pull money when you need it, so you're only actually paying interest on whatever balances you've used on that available balance of the line of credit. Does that make sense?

Darryl [00:21:59]:
So far, it does.

René [00:22:00]:
Okay, so when is it appropriate to explore one of these options?

Darryl [00:22:04]:
Yeah, when am I calling Kurt Browning and saying, get me into a reverse mortgage?

René [00:22:08]:
Well, you can imagine that if you take this at 55 and your expected age of death is 85 and you've got 30 years worth of interest to pay on this fucking thing.

Darryl [00:22:18]:
Yeah.

René [00:22:18]:
It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Darryl [00:22:20]:
No kidding.

René [00:22:20]:
Right. Because you're going to be chewing up. If they lend you 55%, the other 45% of equity that's remaining, a lot of it will be chewed up in interest.

Darryl [00:22:28]:
Yeah.

René [00:22:28]:
Which means it might not affect you, but it might really affect your estate and you might be leaving a much smaller legacy to your family.

Darryl [00:22:35]:
Yeah.

René [00:22:36]:
Or if you end up selling at some point in time and you end up living really long, you may end up with a lot less money that would otherwise be used to pay for rent or a nursing home or retirement community or something. Right.

Darryl [00:22:47]:
I'll soon be working in the porn industry. I'm probably not going to live that long.

René [00:22:51]:
Yeah. Can I have your autograph right now, though?

Darryl [00:22:55]:
You know what's funny is I don't sign with my hands.

René [00:22:59]:
There you go. And that's why you belong in the porn industry. Anyway, so if a client happens to have a shortfall, so it goes back to. What we do as holistic financial planners is we design a full financial plan for pretty much everyone that ends up coming to us for us to manage their money. So if we identify a shortfall, let's say you have a 20% shortfall. So you're only 80% funded for your retirement, and you want to retire at 62, which means that at age 78, you're going to be out of money. But we expect you to live till the year age 84.

Darryl [00:23:31]:
Okay.

René [00:23:31]:
So you have six years of a shortfall. What we would then suggest is, okay, let's plan for the 10,000 a month that you need to support your lifestyle.

Darryl [00:23:40]:
Yeah.

René [00:23:41]:
So from that 10,000, you're going to have some CPP retirement income, you're going to have the old age security, you'll have your investments, maybe a small pension. So then if we identify the shortfall at age 78, and assuming maybe say a 2 and a half or 3% inflation, if at 78, your investments did better than projected, you might be good till 79. Fine, maybe you'll be good till age 80. Right.

Darryl [00:24:02]:
Nice.

René [00:24:03]:
And if inflation isn't quite as high as we anticipate, you might be good till you're 79 or 80. So now you're buying yourself a bit of time. The other thing too is if you happen to die young, then you just live within your means until you run out of resources. And if for some reason you discover you have cancer and you die at 77, then you don't have to worry about the reverse mortgage.

Darryl [00:24:22]:
Yeah. You'll be dead.

René [00:24:23]:
Yeah. Essentially the reverse mortgage becomes the last option.

Darryl [00:24:26]:
Yeah.

René [00:24:27]:
Right. So you spend all of your investments, your RSPs, your RIFs are gone, your TFSAs are gone, your non registered investments are gone, you've liquidated your stock accounts, whatever it is that you might have accumulated well through the years and you're 78, 79 years old and you're out of money, then we go and get the reverse mortgage. So that solves a few things, is that you may never need a reverse mortgage because you might die young because we don't have that crystal ball. Inflation may be lower than we anticipated and returns might be higher. So your money might last longer, hopefully. And you might realize in later years that you don't need as much money because your lifestyle is less expensive, because you're older and you have less things to spend money on. You travel less, you entertain less, you buy less vehicles frequently.

Darryl [00:25:08]:
Yeah, for sure.

René [00:25:09]:
But if all goes as planned and at age 78, you're out of money, then we go and get the reverse mortgage or that type of product. What that's going to accomplish is you're going to accumulate a lot less long term compounded interest.

Darryl [00:25:20]:
Okay. Yeah.

René [00:25:21]:
Rather than saying, okay, well my shortfall is 1,000 bucks a month, so. So when I'm 62, I'm going to get a reverse mortgage and I'm going to start taking a thousand bucks a month right away from my reverse mortgage. Well now from 62 to 85, you've got a lot of years of compounding interest there.

Darryl [00:25:36]:
Yeah, for sure.

René [00:25:37]:
So we would recommend to our clients that let's stay the course, let's spend the money that you have and let's plan to run out at 78. But at 78, if you're still alive and you still need the money because everything went as planned, which is usually not the case, then we can go and get the reverse mortgage. And if you do pass away at age 85, then you'll only have seven years worth of interest that you've accrued. Right. So you've really dodged a bullet there. Instead of jumping the gun at 62 and getting a reverse mortgage to replenish or to fund a shortfall of a thousand bucks a month, we just grabbed the reverse mortgage to use for all of the end of life income needs.

Darryl [00:26:13]:
Gotcha. Is it awkward when you have to call a client and you're like, you know, ring, ring. And it's like, hello. And it's like, hey, Joe, remember when we calculated you'd be dead at 78? Well, here we are. So let's talk about it. Their wife's in there. And it's like, yeah, I thought he'd be gone, too, by 78.

René [00:26:32]:
I tried. I tried.

Darryl [00:26:36]:
That'll be Erin.

René [00:26:37]:
There's not enough Drano I could put in his oatmeal. He just wouldn't die.

Darryl [00:26:42]:
You need a reverse mortgage now. Thanks a lot.

René [00:26:45]:
Jesus, hook us up with a reverse mortgage. Anyway, we don't do reverse mortgages in house. So the next step is, if you do identify later in life, we highly recommend you wait as long as possible so that you don't have all these years of compounding interest. But especially for people that have a lot of equity in their homes, and those are typically people that live in the city where housing is very expensive. It's not out of question that you're going to need to use these types of products. Otherwise, you're selling that home for 1.5 million. You're either downsizing or you're going into some sort of rental unit and....

Darryl [00:27:21]:
Or moving to Kirkland Lake.

René [00:27:23]:
Yeah, or move to KL Still beautiful.

Darryl [00:27:26]:
Yeah I believe it.

René [00:27:27]:
Further away.

Darryl [00:27:28]:
Yeah.

René [00:27:29]:
So you get the 1.5 million at 78, you no longer own your home, and then you have this money now to pay rent or whatever for the rest of your life. But a lot of people are in the home that they absolutely love being in, and they just don't want to give that up. So this is a means to stay in your home when you no longer have the resources to support your lifestyle.

Darryl [00:27:49]:
Gotcha.

René [00:27:50]:
So then my suggestion would be, well, we can connect you with people that do this. So find a professional, someone who can shop the market for you to get you the right product for your needs, first of all, and to get you the right interest rate with the company that's willing to offer the best package or the best bundle or whatever. And just be prepared that you're going to have to pay for some sort of evaluation for your home. Right. Because if the lender is willing to give you 55% of the value of your home, they're going to want some sort of evidence of what your home is actually worth.

Darryl [00:28:18]:
Exactly.

René [00:28:19]:
And finally, you know, interest rates are a big factor. Like right now, reverse mortgages are not attractive at all because we're in such a high interest rate environment.

Darryl [00:28:29]:
Yeah, right.

René [00:28:30]:
But two, three years ago, before, you know, hit the fan, it was really an odd issue. You. And hopefully going forward, as interest rates normalize, it becomes something that's a little bit more of an attractive option for people that are running out of money in later years.

Darryl [00:28:43]:
Yeah, for sure. I always had this misconception because when I first saw the commercials for reverse mortgage, I'm sure they were on TV before I noticed this, but it was one of those like, now I have a house, I'm an adult, I have kids, and I'm seeing these commercials. But when I saw them, I was like, how the hell does a reverse mortgage work? I honestly could not wrap my head around it. And all I could think was that you were signing a contract with them where you're basically giving them your house. Ownership of your house. That's what I honestly thought when I first saw those commercials.

René [00:29:21]:
Yeah, you actually maintain ownership of your home until you sell. It's when you sell that you have to repay that reverse mortgage loan.

Darryl [00:29:27]:
Gotcha.

René [00:29:28]:
So I'm just doing a quick calculation as you're, as you're chatting there. So going back to that 78 year old who just ran out of money, who expects to live till age 85 and wants to stay in their home until they pass away.

Darryl [00:29:39]:
Yeah.

René [00:29:40]:
So 78 years old, you stay in your home and you die at age 85 as planned. And you needed 2,500 bucks a month because you ran out of investments. But you still have your pension plan from your prior employment and you have your CPP and your old age security, but your investment portfolio was providing you with $2,500 a month of income and now you need that reverse mortgage to replace that income. So if I run a quick number for someone who needs income for seven years, let's say interest rate is high at 8%. Worst case, you're receiving $2,500 a month. And of course with a reverse mortgage, you make no repayments or anything. You just owe the big chunk of money at the end when you pass away in your estate, when they sell that 1.5 million dollar home, you'll have accumulated $880,000 in debt.

Darryl [00:30:25]:
Oh, crazy.

René [00:30:26]:
So 2500 times 12 times 7 years is 210,000 in payments. So you'll have paid $76,000 in interest, but that allows you to stay in your home until you're gone. Right. So your estate will be $76,000 poorer, but you'll have maintained the same quality of life? Yeah, until end of life. Like, it's. It's. It's not a bad option.

René [00:30:52]:
You have to be ready. First of all, you have to educate yourself and know what you're getting into and understand the contract. And you have to just come to terms that you're out of money. And if you want to stay in your home and you want to maintain the same quality of life that you've enjoyed your entire retired life that you're going to have to pay some form of interest or fee of some sort to be able to do that. So are you willing to pay the price?

Darryl [00:31:16]:
Well, you know, you see Tom Selleck, you see Kurt Browning. You see all these, like, old stars who are now old and into their homes and old studs. Yeah. They're all talking about the reverse mortgage. I need to know.

René [00:31:28]:
Pretty sure Tom Selleck doesn't need a reverse mortgage.

Darryl [00:31:31]:
Or Kurt Browning, I know.

René [00:31:32]:
Yeah.

Darryl [00:31:33]:
We'll be right back.

Darryl [00:31:50]:
All right. From reverse mortgages. Let's take a little detour from finances and business and get into the little lighter side of life.

René [00:31:57]:
What are we talking about today anyway?

Darryl [00:31:59]:
Well, it's.

René [00:32:00]:
If I sound unscripted, it's because I am.

Darryl [00:32:02]:
It's fun to keep you on your toes.

René [00:32:03]:
You do that. All right. I feel like a ballerina sometimes.

Darryl [00:32:08]:
I think I treat you more like roller derby.

René [00:32:10]:
Oh, yeah. There you go.

Darryl [00:32:11]:
Well, this is something I think we can all relate to. And that is what I call the date night rut.

René [00:32:20]:
Okay.

Darryl [00:32:21]:
And you know what I'm talking about. Like, when date night just means ordering the same takeout. Rewatching Friends for the hundredth time. Like, could we BE any more predictable? That was my bad Chandler impression. I'm sorry.

René [00:32:34]:
We've been binging Cheers lately, Not Friends.

Darryl [00:32:37]:
Nice, Nice. So here's the thing. Why does it happen? Right? It's for me. Like, I found life gets busy. Work, kids, laundry. That one show that you can't stop binging. And before you know it, date night is literally autopilot. And this doesn't go just for couples in relationships.

Darryl [00:32:56]:
This is for friends too. I have friends where when we get together, it's the same thing every time. And let's face it, when the weekend rolls around it, it's just easier to settle in on the couch than to plan something new, I find. But I think we can shake things up and it doesn't have to mean blowing your budget or planning a weekend getaway. I'm talking about unconventional ideas that can bring a little spark back to date night.

René [00:33:21]:
Yeah. I guess I could kind of relate and I kind of don't. I'll explain. So Meg's wearing off on me a little bit. I think when it comes to that, she's a lot more like you. Where she likes routine, she likes repetitiveness, and she likes just being in the comfort of her home. Because all day long we're working with the public, we're working with our team, and it's just there's constant stimulation. Right.

René [00:33:42]:
So I think it's a break from the stimulus.

Darryl [00:33:45]:
Yeah.

René [00:33:45]:
Is just turning your brain off. So I can't say I very often have bad days, but there's days where I'm crazy busy.

Darryl [00:33:51]:
Yeah.

René [00:33:51]:
And you just want to turn your brain off. But the idea of coming home and rushing through a workout and then just having a shower and getting dolled up to go for a nice meal for us, I mean, there's limited restaurant options. So we're driving to Rouyn. So you gotta.

Darryl [00:34:03]:
Yeah.

René [00:34:04]:
You know, 50 minute drive. Next thing you know, like, wow, you know what? Why don't we just cook a meal ourselves and we can put a sweater and some joggers on and watch a show. She's definitely wearing off on me a little bit that way because I'm way more adventurous when it comes to date night. And I think it has a lot to do with spontaneity. Like, I adjust very well to change.

Darryl [00:34:23]:
Yeah.

René [00:34:23]:
Like last minute, we could say, okay, let's, let's go.

Darryl [00:34:25]:
Yeah.

René [00:34:26]:
It doesn't have to be like, holy, let's go book a flight and let's leave for two weeks.

Darryl [00:34:29]:
Exactly.

René [00:34:30]:
But I'd be okay with that. Like, I could pack a bag in 15 minutes and be ready to go for two weeks and it doesn't faze me.

Darryl [00:34:36]:
Yeah.

René [00:34:36]:
But most people aren't like that.

Darryl [00:34:38]:
If you plan for it. Right. You can do little things. Like, I'll give you a couple examples, like an escape room. They are popping up everywhere. There's all these escape rooms in every town and city. And it's, you know, you're locking yourself in a room with the, with the person you want to be with and you guys are doing like these puzzles and trying to figure out your escape and you're having fun and you're problem solving and, you know, there's been moments where it's like your patience is tested with each other. Yes.

Darryl [00:35:03]:
In an escape room. My wife, she tests my patience in the escape room.

René [00:35:07]:
I'm sure you test hers, too.

Darryl [00:35:08]:
I certainly did. I was lying. I didn't. She didn't test mine at all. But it's a lot more exciting than just figuring out what to watch on Netflix, right?

René [00:35:17]:
Yeah, but it depends too, right? Like I said earlier, if you're super busy all day and, like, do you really want to go problem solving when you've been problem solving all day? So I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying, yeah, that's like a good Saturday night thing when you've had a day of laundry and looking after the kids and whatever.

Darryl [00:35:34]:
Think outside the box. So I used to do this thing a long time ago. Me and my wife have never done it. I did it with an old girlfriend. And we call it the bookstore date. And I loved it. We used to go to this little bookstore and it was literally, we both worked in the film industry, busy days, just mentally and physically drained. Go to this bookstore.

Darryl [00:35:53]:
And we each gave each other a small budget. It's like, you can't spend more than like five bucks. And then it's like we walk around the bookstore and we start talking, like, because we're browsing, right? And you're browsing and you start looking at titles and it's like, oh, my God, look at this. What's this about? And then you start connecting. You're talking, talking, and then before you know it, you buy a book. And we used to pick a book for each other by the end of this little date that we had, which was really simple of just visiting a bookstore, it was, pitch me the book you're going to buy me. Okay, so I'm going to pitch you this book. I found this book.

Darryl [00:36:23]:
I used to read it as a kid. And you do the whole thing and you're telling stories of why you got this book for them. And then you buy the book and then you go home and yeah, you're sitting and you're cuddling, you're doing whatever, and now you're reading that book. So you've taken that simple date night. And again, doesn't have to be extravagant, right? It can even be in your home. Like, you and I are a little different because we are always cooking and trying new recipes. But, like, a lot of people don't cook so, like a DIY cooking class. We talked about YouTube earlier.

Darryl [00:36:50]:
It's like, what if you and your spouse or you and your friend end up just saying, let's. Tonight, let's go on YouTube. Pick a country. What do you want to learn? Let's. Let's make pad thai.

René [00:36:59]:
Absolutely. You're redeeming yourself from the escape room...

Darryl [00:37:02]:
I told you. I told you.

René [00:37:03]:
On a Wednesday night when you're exhausted.

Darryl [00:37:05]:
I am a great date.

René [00:37:08]:
When you said Escape Rooms, like, fucking I'm out of here. This is way too much problem solving after a day of problem solving. Maybe on a Saturday night when my brain is rested. But, yeah, absolutely, man. It's funny you mentioned the bookstore thing, because there's this. There's this little bookstore in Kelowna that Megan and I frequent regularly called the Mosaic Bookstore.

Darryl [00:37:28]:
You didn't even know you were going on a little date night?

René [00:37:30]:
Yeah. And it's right across the street from our favorite coffee shop called Deville. Oh, my God, they make the best lattes. And Megan and I will drive into town and we'll just park the car and we'll grab a coffee at Deville and we'll walk over to the bookstore and just roam the aisles and just kind of share stories on what we found. And I even talked to you about one of the books that I bought that had all these funny sayings, and it just became a very humorous thing that dragged on for weeks. Like, I would read a page or two of these funny sayings and stuff, and it just became a very humorous part of day to day. So it was a date. It was a date.

René [00:38:04]:
I wouldn't say date night because, you know, we do that after we try to sneak away. But I fucking love that. That could cost nothing if you buy nothing.

Darryl [00:38:13]:
Exactly.

René [00:38:13]:
Other than a cup of coffee. So, like you say, it doesn't have to break the bank. You can, you know, go for, like. One of my favorite things for dating Meg is going on walks or hikes. Right. Just going for a walk after dinner with the dogs.

Darryl [00:38:27]:
Yeah. It's simple stuff.

René [00:38:28]:
Doesn't matter where we are. Whether we're on the road and we just walk to a restaurant or we're in town and we just go for walk down the street or we want to go for an afternoon hike even. You know, we. We hiked. We snuck up Big White not long ago when we were in Kelowna. And, like, it's like.

Darryl [00:38:44]:
That's going to be my porn star name, by the way. Big White.

René [00:38:46]:
Big. Yes, yes. I love it.

Darryl [00:38:53]:
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

René [00:38:57]:
The way to make me lose my train of thought. But like we go hiking for like three hours and just get some fresh air and take some nice photos, but you end up having such meaningful conversations during your walks.

Darryl [00:39:10]:
It's crazy, but that's what I mean. It's just getting out of that rut, right? You come home from work, you put your shit down, you make dinner, you clean up the kitchen, you sit on the couch, you watch Wheel of Fortune, you watch Dateline, and then it's off to bad.

René [00:39:23]:
So many relationships go sour because of the monotony, right? Because you know what, you stop trying because everything becomes easy and routine and that's where goes sour. You have. It's like anything else, you have to put effort and you have to fucking nourish your relationships, man.

Darryl [00:39:38]:
Exactly. I had a friend a little while ago ask me this because he calls me his girlfriend is because he says I'm so great at the chick flick type stuff. And he had said, you know, me and my wife were in this rut, but we tried the date night thing. We tried, you know, we go out for dinner and it wasn't exciting. Like we went out for dinner, we talked about the kids. This one, it didn't cost him a ton of money. But I said, you know what? I said, I know you guys do like to go for dinner. I said, I want you to try something different.

Darryl [00:40:04]:
Do a dessert hop. Not a bar hop, a dessert hop. They were in the city, they're in Toronto. And I said, visit a few different places around town that are known for their desserts. You share a slice of pie at one place, you share a little ice cream at another, and then you go for a nice little pastry and a coffee somewhere else.

René [00:40:19]:
All it takes is an idea, man. I love it.

Darryl [00:40:21]:
Yeah. And it, you know what, they went on this little date. He's like, I'll give it a try. And so he told his wife, says, let's do a dessert hop. And they did it. They went to three different places and then they were done. They had this little pastry somewhere as the last place. And his wife said, you know what, maybe we should go for a cup of tea or coffee or something.

Darryl [00:40:38]:
And he's like, yeah. And they were so excited that they just kept going to like another place. And they texted me when they were at the cafe and he said, oh my God, we are having so much fun in this little dessert hop.

René [00:40:49]:
The only reservation I have against the dessert one is that if you end up eating too much, you both feel bloated and you get home, and then you don't want to get any action on.

Darryl [00:40:57]:
You have to share. That's. That's the secret you got to share.

René [00:41:00]:
This is not a wild sex kind of night.

Darryl [00:41:03]:
But, hey, listen, after the dessert hop, if you're not bloated, you know, you shared, you're good. You come home and you watch a movie by Big White.

René [00:41:12]:
There you go. Yeah. It's all about connections. And again, you have to make an effort. Because, like, relationships take work. Whether it's your friends, whether it's your spouse, whether it's siblings... your children.

Darryl [00:41:27]:
Yeah.

René [00:41:28]:
You have to make an effort to connect with your children. I promise you, if you don't call them ever, they won't. They're not going to call you back.

Darryl [00:41:34]:
No, I call them stuff. All right.

René [00:41:36]:
Oh, yeah. But you still live at home. Yeah.

Darryl [00:41:39]:
Hey, you little bastard.

René [00:41:40]:
Yeah, like, I meant telephone.

Darryl [00:41:42]:
Oh. Like, nice calls I got you. Okay. We're working on that.

René [00:41:46]:
Summing things up, man. Like, don't let things get monotonous, because, you know, relationships, if your relationship's worth it, you have to work at it, and you have to make some effort, and you have to be creative, and sometimes you have to be open to spontaneity. So I'm glad you brought this topic up.

Darryl [00:42:02]:
Well, I'll never bring you to an escape room, I'll tell you that right now.

René [00:42:05]:
You and I. Yeah. We'd have to have, like, a couple beers first, just to lighten things up, because, first of all, we'll probably never get out. And we. And if we do, it might just be one of us because we might kill each other. We should try it one day. I've never once entertained the idea of doing an escape room with you. Maybe we have to try that.

Darryl [00:42:22]:
It'll be you throwing me through a wall. I'm going to wear a hockey helmet.

René [00:42:28]:
Yeah. And pads. I'm going to wear a jockstrap. I'm going to wear a jock strap. I'll take my chances on the rest of my body parts.

Darryl [00:42:37]:
Listen, this is season three. We're so excited to be back, and we've got some great shows coming up with some great guests. So stay tuned for that and follow us wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. Share us with your friends. Don't let us be a secret. Follow us on Instagram. And if you're old, follow us on Facebook.

René [00:42:54]:
That's me.

Darryl [00:42:55]:
Anyways, we'll see you guys next time.

René [00:43:07]:
Bye!